I am going to start up a new site -- http://www.eblahforums.com -- for all the people who want forums, but hate other site providers such as "ProBoards", etc.  However, I want a little feedback from everyone in the community as to how this should be done.

There are many ways, but there must be a source of income for both me and stonedseller.  I have thought about forums with ads ... and then users can pay something per month to get rid of the ads.  I have also thought about just using a setup fee version -- which I also fine okay.

With the setup fee version, users would have $15 per forum they want.  If they wish to remove the copyright and all associated things it's an additional $20 (and $5 per month there after).

This would be about $6.00 (after money taken from by PayPal), for us each (which is $14 less for me as an install).  However ads are another way.  I have not used ads in years, as I hate them.  However, I have heard they pay okay.  I just need some ways to make some money, else I may have to halt work on this project -- eblah -- while I either code another project, or find work elsewhere (and for a 17 year old ... that pretty much means no time for anything else).

If anyone else has ways they think this can be acomplished, please reply and voice them.  Also, how can this way be improved apon (the "we will host your forum" way).


- Justin

Wow!  Great idea but a tough question.  My guess is that advertising should be an easy way to go for free forums.  Then, a paid version without.

Maybe you could create a couple scripts to help complete newbies set up a custom looking site, like a logo upload that will show the logo at the top right, center or left.

Also, if you could design it to (not sure how to explain this) use the person's/company's URL it might be more appealing.  I don't know how or if you can that though.

Gawad.com offers free e-mail services and a branded (using your URL) service as well.  First of all, you may want to consider that as an additional freebie for users.  Secondly, maybe you can do what they do with banner ads.  If you use their co-branding service you can add your own banners for up to 50% of the rotation.  This allows webmasters to offer free e-mail to users and still be able to sell advertising themselves.  Makes it very appealing.  You might cconsider doing the same.

dazz

Another option, which I know will not be popular, is to charge for the eblah software itself.  

Personally, after using it for these past few months, I would not mind paying a small price for the "copyrighted version".  The copyrights at the bottom of the screen do not bother me, actually I kind of like them being there as it shows we are not offering a "fly-by-night" forum to our members.  Also, with the assistance available on this forum, support is not a real issue.  I think $19.99 to $29.95 would be a fair price for the first purchase of the software with either free upgrades for a year or so and then an additional charge for future upgades.  Something like an additional $9.95 a year for free upgrades would not be bad.  If people went out and priced some of the other forum software available, they would see this is really a bargain.

I quote these "low" prices, since like most, I am running a FREE Forum for my members and can't really afford much more than that.

Other may be willing to pay even a little more for the right to remove the "copyrights" and/or unlimited upgrades for a set period of time.

Okay, now the hate messages can begin . . .

Well ... anyone can donate, that always helps and you can then say you helped "pay" for E-Blah.  ;D

Donating is not the same as buying.  There is a lack of personal attachment or possession through donations.  After the brief flash of pride of "helping" someone through a donation subsides, people begin to think about  the "philosophical" issues of their donation, while an outright purchase gives one a sense of ownership and the philosophical issues are then a mute point.  Human nature is strange, but thats why we have two thumbs.   Donating feels like we are giving to a charity, or even worse, contributing to some political campaign or something; and I really hate politics.

Besides, you are talking about not making enough money to continue development on eBlah.  Relying on donations is risky and not a sure revenue builder, whereas; charging an actual price up front guarantees you income that you don't have to wait for.

It is good you have a desire to keep this software free, but setting up a paying Forum Site, running advertising, etc., etc., is not the same as selling the product outright.  

Internet advertising only provides a "slow stream" of income, at best.  And all REAL studies show that only the advertisers and the initial distributors of the ads are really making any money from these ads.  Plus, the whole income possibility from 'net ads is too iffy.  It is more of a "If you build it, it doesn't mean they will come"

As to the Forum Hosting idea that may work, but then again, you are relying on the lesser amount of people who do not wish to host a Forum themselves, rather than the majority who may be willing to pay for the software and then maybe pay for assistance in installation and such.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.  It really doesn't matter what I say anyway, you are going to do what you want to do.

I was asking you to donate.  ;)

And I gave you my answer.  READ IT, don't just view it !!!

bombadil is right here Justin.  I know you are trying to do the nice thing, but forget about the people that donate to you.  You should charge for eblah:)  You know, because it is all about OWNING something.  Donating money is not good enough,  because when you pay for something, you have to own it you know!  Give it up bombadil...Justin has worked his a** off for over two years to get E-Blah to this stage.  The least you could do is give him what he deserves...RESPECT!

You can own it.  Just buy a license to get rid of the copyright.  :P

I am surprised you never called us to find out what we could do for you Justin.  ;)

For what it's worth, I'm on board - you have an amazing project here, Justin, with decent business potential - and a great team/community behind you.

Communications are a two-way street.  Business thrives on communication - and open source is where a lot of that occurs.  (It's also the basis for avalon.  lol)

Donations are great, but so is the amount of work you've put into E-Blah.

Regards 2 all, and thanks again.  ;)

This forum is the best, and Justin deserves to see some return on all the hard work that he's put into it.

BUT if I had been asked to  pay before I installed it and tried it out for myself, I would have looked elsewhere. There has to be a way for people to try it and become attached  to it before paying. That's why I would go for the advertising banner option - it gives both the opportunity to try the software, and the incentive to pay.

Really, it's just free right now with no advertising ... lol.

Or put a picture of micheal Jackson on top of the forums.  THEY WILL PAY to get it removed lol.

Unless it's a sick MJ website.  :X

could I have a forum on that site?

thanks

I am not completely sure of my facts but I understand that the advertising model is not really viable.  It will create a small income stream but will lack any real punch.

I think a payment option would be suitable but I think that much better than an outright purchase plan would be a shareware oppportunity.  Many commercial and academic sites abide by the shareware principal and fee income is sustained providing a ready market for upgrades.

The fee level will have to be assessed but I would have thought 15 or 19.99 is reasonable.

The problem with this is that much of the core would continue to be perl scripted and this would need compiling.  I do not think this would resolveve everything but it may improve security by permitting a timeslice check to remove the operational capability after say 1 month.

The optimum solution would be to use the success of this work as a demonstration of your ability and to look toward finding a full time job in a related field such as programming or research.

Well done!

I for 1 absolutely agree with everything ChrisK! ... except this:

"The problem with this is that much of the core would continue to be perl scripted and this would need compiling.  I do not think this would resolveve everything but it may improve security by permitting a timeslice check to remove the operational capability after say 1 month."

1. Perl scripting is cool.
2. How do you mean compiling?  Perl "by default" is an interpretive language.  It can be compiled, but...
3. Carefully coded Perl is as safe as carefully coded anything-else.
4. I'm not sure if removing operational capability after any time period would violate the GPL.  Lol, guess i'm gunna go back and read my own post.

Other than that 1 paragraph, right on the money.  (Oh and I just voted 4 ya!)

Hey

Maybe you could make a version that has the bottom say "Owned by $adminnamehere", with the option of removing the copyright.

That way those who purchase a license can remove the copyright and feel like they own it.

Or what you could also do is make 2 releases. A free release and a licensed release. The licensed users will all get to download the latest top of the line version, while the free release will only see maybe 2 versions back.

That would be a great incentive to purchase, because I have a few versions old copy of the script (yep, WITHOUT THE LATEST SECURITY UPDATE HAHAHAHAHAHA), and I still think its great. But seeing the reputation thing on this forum, and not on mine makes me want it because I like it.

I think thats a real good idea, because free users will be able to see the new features on the forum here, and on other licensed forums (maybe you could make a licensed forums page).

Tim

Dual licensing is becoming common.  Avalon uses it to.

;)

Well, yeah.  But, I don't want to spend all my time maintaining so many things.  lol  I donno though, I might just do it.  But as of yet, it doesn't seem as if anyone want's to anyway.  I'm just giving forums away for free right now .... but the server has gone down before, so that's the only reason why someone might not want to use it.  lol

the uptime is 99.99%. I know because I use one. it is always up!
I post my site to all search engines, directories and indexes with
http://selfpromotion.com and there is advancing incoming traffic...


:troll2:

Yes, perl is interpreted but it can be compiled.  I still think that Justin would be well advised to look at this as a demonstration of ability and to secure a full-time job on that basis.  I accept the dleet suggestion that some restrictions would fall outside the will of GPL.  Oh well!

Now I am exposed to the move over here in the UK to look at online journals for academics to ease the data storage and retrieval problems and to provide a measurable legal document.  I think the scripts used in Blah could easily be adopted to create a simple weblog/journal type system with searchable displays in chronological order with some category matching.  Sounds so simple but it might be a nice new project.

Anyway to conclude, a substantial system, Justin, one in which you can be proud.  I see elswehere that you are going on holiday and I wish you a pleasant break.  Oh, and try at least one bottle of beer...have fun.

Best regards
Chris

yep. there is a catch 22 here.

people will pay if they know it's exactly what they are looking for.

they will not look, if it's not free.

time will tell.